Why I Love the Argument
Just as I feared, podcasts have taken over my life. For the better part of a year, I fought the idea of listening to any podcasts. I knew that if I started, even with just one, the fight would be over. Podcasts are way too good. They’re just so easy to listen to while I’m getting ready for the day, or driving, or making food. There are enough of them to cover even weird niche interests. And they help fill my consuming desire to know and read everything. So now, after podcasts have sacked my life and razed it to the ground, I listen to Up First and the Daily while I’m taking a shower at a blistering three times speed. I follow the Disrupters, Revisionist History, the Anthropocene Reviewed, and about a half a dozen others. Above all, I look forward to Thursday morning when the Argument comes out.
The Argument is just that, an argument between three New York Times Op-Ed writers: David Leonhardt, Ross Douthat, and Michelle Goldberg. Usually a day or two removed from the rapid pace of the news cycle, the Argument digs into the meaning and implications of world events, by bringing opposing sides together. David is on the center left with moderating instincts, Ross is a center right Catholic, and Michelle is a progressive left feminist. Each episode brings their different views to bear, and David, Ross, and Michelle are all insightful enough to make me consider each of their positions in a new way.
Often the episodes pit Ross and Michelle against each other as David tries to find some middle ground. Occasionally, the normal partisan divide breaks down. I remember one episode in particular where David argued for the broad use of non-gendered pronouns, while both Ross and Michelle aligned in favor of gendered pronouns, but for completely different reasons. This is what I really like about the Argument. They get down into the details of ideology where the normal divides can dissolve, and they present different views seriously. There’s too much respect and friendship for them to be completely dismissive of each other, as many of us often tend to do in political debates.
And that’s really what I love about the Argument. In basically real time, I got to listen to three people who generally disagree with each other come closer together, learn to understand each other, and become better friends. While I heard them grapple with the political and ideological issues of the day, I also heard their struggles and joys of being parents. The Argument also gives me a point of connection with my family. I can hop on our podcast text thread or call them up. I can share what I agreed with and disagreed with, and listen to where they stand on those same topics David. Occasionally my mom gets exasperated that all of my and my fiance's conversations with her and my dad eventually end up with, “what’d you think about what Michelle said this week?” or something along those lines. Yet, the Argument helps me better understand my loved ones. I remember stopping at a Starbucks off the highway to visit my brother’s family after Christmas and almost all of us had just listened to the episode ‘What we got wrong in 2019.’ Discussing the episode gave us time to think back on all that had changed during the year, where we had disagreed and been wrong during the year, and where we’d like to change in the year to come.
Ultimately, the Argument gives me hope. While it often feels like we can’t know, or like, or even take seriously people with different politics than us, the Argument is a vivid counter example. I went back and listened to some of the early episodes recently, and the difference in how the three interact is obvious. Early on, everyone was kind of stiff and prickly, but now they know each other so well, when Ross is gone, David will genuinely make his argument for him. But things are changing for the Argument. This week I was sad to hear that David is leaving the podcast this week. The Argument was really his vision, and he executed it amazingly well. I’m sure Frank Bruni will be a very able host, but it’ll have a different feel. My hope is that this gives me another chance to see different people grow closer and become friends. That, I think, is David’s legacy on the Argument. Just when it seems impossible for people to understand each other, David and the Argument prove that we can.
